Thursday, September 10, 2009

UPDATE To Our Social Sites Post - Deception & The Truth


We are very disappointed in an administrator of one site who is writing untruths in emails to their members. For a site administrator to do such a thing rather than to deal with a situation straight up, openly and honestly, is very unprofessional.

We have learned that an administrator of one particular site found out about our blog. This administrator removed any and all threads that the sites' members posted to their forums that had our blog link in it. (There is a comment on the below original post about social sites that talks about the thread removals on one site.) The same administrator also sent emails telling those members who originated the threads to stop posting the link to this blog.
Fine, it is their site - no biggy.

But this is where they stepped over the line from administrator to Pinocchio:

Pinocchio also wrote in an email to at least one member who had posted the blog link that - get this, it is funny:

It was insinuated that those that have been hurt on that site by the gangs, goons and other nasties deserved it and it was stated that these victims were the cause of the problems on that site. The administrator basically said that it was the victims fault that they were ganged up on. (These are not the administrators' exact words but it is the basis of what was said.)

Told you it was funny! haha

But what is really funny about what Pinocchio said - is that they sent that comment to someone who had been a victim of that sites' forum abuse on several occasions. We know that they were abused and that the site administration did nothing about it. We can guarantee anyone reading this, the person who received this email did not ask to be bothered when they were attacked nor was there anything in any of their posts that could have even remotely been considered inciting trouble. What brought on the attacks is still a mystery to those of us who have seen the evidence of the abuse. (And no, the evidence had not been tampered with.)

Needless to say, the above member dumped that site after the administrators ridiculous email because of the deception and mishandling of the above noted situation and because they no longer wanted to be associated with a site that they felt to be a detriment to their online business.
Everything we wrote in our blog post, Online Marketplaces, Social Aspects - Help Or Hurt Your Business And Reputation?, is 100% true. We have no reason to make any of it up since we went to the various sites and set up stores in hopes of seriously finding a new home. Once on certain sites, we found some of the communities polluted and tolerated as much as we could before writing the blog post. (We waited about 11.75 months before writing that blog post - plenty of time to see if the communities were always tainted or if it was only once in awhile.)

At least one site must see a picture of their site painted from what was written because they have become quite hostile about our blog. There would be no hostility if their site was not having issues similar to what was written about. We listed absolutely no site names so they are assuming that what is written is about them rather than knowing if it is or not. Since their hostility seems to be due to an assumed familiarity of what was posted, maybe they should be cleaning up their backyard rather than sending emails containing untruths.

Our goals in writing the blog post that caused such a stir were to honestly share our experience with other online sellers looking for an alternative marketplace and the second goal was that we had hoped to wake up some sites as to what was going on so that they might do something constructive to correct the issues rather than to try to cover them up and / or ignore them. The idea was to get the site owners to make their sites enjoyable for all who visit them... not just for them to be enjoyable for a few. We felt the blog post necessary since emails to administrators fell on deaf ears and were simply ignored or made light of.

* The above mentioned email proves that the site that authored the email knows that they have issues with gangs and other types of mean people;

* it also all but proves everything we said in our blog about some social sites not handling the misdeeds of their members

* it further proves that the site does not handle bad forum behavior in an appropriate manner because they blame it on the victims of the abuse;

* it absolutely proves that the site will make up BS to cover their back sides rather than do the right thing for the health of the entire site;

* it somewhat proves that there are site favorites who can do no wrong on their site;

* it proves without a doubt that the administrator who wrote the email doesn't plan to do anything to correct the situation.

Furthermore:

* There really are thugs on some sites and they get great pleasure from hurting people.

* No one ever deserves to be abused no matter what.

* No one who is serious about running an online business goes to a forum looking to be treated like a piece of crap and they most certainly would not pay the site so that they can be treated that way.

* Most of the people who have been victims to the misbehavior have done absolutely nothing wrong but to have the nerve to post something besides meaningless drivel on the forums. (Some members have even been abused for posting drivel.)

* No matter what, the behavior that has hurt so many people should never be allowed on any site but more so on a selling site because it can hurt every business on the site.

* Site administrators should want to improve their site rather than to degrade it or to allow their members to degrade it.

* If a member does post something that is unacceptable, the site administration should handle it - not the gangs, goons and hecklers.

* Most of all, site administrators should be truthful.
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** For those members of the various sites who claim not to approve of our blog post, you object because you do not understand for you have not suffered the vicious attacks of others. You have been accepted into one of the many cliques that thrive on the these sites. Some of you are the same attackers spoken of. This is not about you. This is about how people have been mistreated and hurt and how some sites allow illegal activities that need to be cleaned up. It is about maliciously taking another persons' dignity and respect away from them. It's about things that are so very much bigger than you... we do not seek nor want your approval, thank you very much.

9 comments:

  1. Your Dedication and Research into this is Astounding. I have seen some of what you are talking about Firsthand. Most of the Membership that does not want this in the forums are the one's that see the Finger of Guilt pointing at them. There are those that see it and want it to stay around and then a few who do not care.

    As for you just Continue doing the Job you are doing. I am now a subscriber The Reeves Report and will watch for daily updates. Thank You very much.

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  2. Hello there,

    Thank you for your follow up blog to your first blog you mention. You are correct, the first blog you wrote was extensively researched and well written, and I enjoyed reading it. It was not a glowing review of any social market place; it uncovered many truths to what actually happens in online communities. There was no mention which marketplace or community you were speaking of in your post but I am sure that the many moderators of online communities can find similarities in their backyard, Bonanzle being no exception.

    The link to your blog was posted on our forums and that was where I first found it. For the most part, we do not allow outbound links in our forums or anywhere on the site. That being said, we are usually pretty lax with links to blogs and such and that is why the link to your blog was not initially removed by admin. The first post was flagged and removed by the community. Now in order for a topic to be removed by our community, it has to be a certain number of unique users who tag it who each have a value assigned. The number of users or value it takes to remove a post is private but I can tell you that the value is set in a way that does not happen unless many agree. To avoid having “gangs” tag threads, we monitor who tags posts and if we see a pattern of ill behavior we will change that persons “tagging value” to zero. So basically that person can tag away and not have any affect on the topic being reclassified. So the first post was removed by the community.

    Shortly after the topic was removed we received emails from our community complaining about the blog post. The blog post hit a little too close to home for some in our community and they requested that we do not have the link in the forums. Based on the emails we received at support and based on how quickly the first post was removed, we made a decision to remove the link from future posts. When we noticed a user continuously posting the link in the forums, we sent them an email to explain why we were removing the post and also requesting that they do not post again.

    Here is the actual email we sent this user:

    Hey there,

    We have several complaints about the blog link you continued to post in the forums. We appreciate your support of XXXX’s blog; she is a very talented writer and an asset to Bonanzle. However, we are under the impression that the blog speaks of Bonanzler’s in a negative light and it will only serve to bridge a larger gap between portions of our community and we would prefer if you did not promote this blog post in our forums. We really want to work on creating unity as much as we can. We are all here for the same goal and that is to succeed with our businesses while having some fun. Thank you for understanding.

    Regards,
    Mark Dorsey
    Bonanzle

    The recipient responded by closing their account which was the last thing we wanted to happen.

    In closing, the Bonanzle community is not perfect. Managing a community that is growing by 1000 users every two days is a challenge to say the least. What you should know is that we do pay attention to what our users are saying. We do read the blogs and use the information our community provides us to improve. Thank you again for your well written post and we do hope that you continue to be a part of the Bonanzle community.

    Regards,
    Mark Dorsey
    Bonanzle

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  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  4. addendum

    but as stated, this was not necessarily about bonanzle. Several other sites have these issues in varying degree. Bonanzle users got the most defensive.

    ~Lisa

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  5. Thank you for your comments Mr. Dorsey.

    As we have stated previously, our obsevations were of more than one site.

    Only one site has become hostile over what we have honestly stated was our experiences with the sites noted in the blog.

    You may also be assuming too much or may be confused because the person who received the email containing mistruths received 2 emails.

    It was the second email that made them feel the need to leave the site associated with the email.

    If your site only sent the one innocent looking email, perhaps it is not your site being written about.

    If your site was the one who sent the emails, it would be appreciated if the second email would also be published. That email would show the truth of the matter.

    Thank you for visiting our blog.

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  6. Im surprised SLW of Lollishops hasn't come by to post in defense of social sites. Lollishops, a juried site, was plagued with issues from the get go, not just growing pains either. Lollishops forums and social interacting habits were so destructive to the site, there was a mass seller exodus due a huge forum bruhaha. The ning group dedicated to helping former lollishops sellers salvage their online reputation has stated that about 1/2 of it's sellers left lollishops last January due to a major incident in the forums. Lollishops is still an active marketplace online. So, it's not exclusively a Bonanzle issue. Ewaey, a short lived site with a format similiar to Bonanzle, destroyed itself directly due to an "open air" policy. All business took place openly in the forums, based on Ewaey's need to be opposite of eBay to the extreme. All staff meetings, reprimands, and dirty laundry, were hung out to dry. Then it got even more stupider (bad english yes, but it so fits) Ewaey decided to make average sellers associates, thus giving them mod powers~aww bullwinkle that trick NEVER works. Soon after battle of the egos ensued, including a hostile takeover (HUH?) resulting in the site owner and former president now dethroned, pulling the plug with no warning.

    Less Talking More Selling...

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  7. Etsy, enjoying huge growth and positive financial stats, is also not immune to social site stigmas. Etsy, has live chat room capabilities and a huge forum base.

    Live chats are rarely a problematic issue as one tends to gravitate towards the room that best appeals to them or they have become a regular to that particular group.

    Most of the negative forum issues are centered around the "I won't buy from you if" threads which are slowly gaining a reputation for being poor social conduct to post those threads.

    The average new etsy forum user finds the 'Critique' section brutal. To the newbie onlooker that is cruel comment area, however, etsians dont sugarcoat it. Remember, the OP is ASKING for a critique, they are there of their own free will. That said, many new sellers get heartbroken or hurt feelings and discouraged.

    Etsy has a reputation for blunt, say it like it is, commentary. Damn artisans.

    There is no censorship on etsy. Basic forum rules apply. Etsy is a little different, basically if you can dish it out, you better be able to take it too. How you conduct yourself in the forum does effect your sales.

    Since the inner site email system, called convo's, is limited. You can only send a certain amount in a 24 hour period, that is not considered a "social" aspect of the site.

    Bidville, now defunct, established in 1999 and eventually bought out by Ubid. Had a wonderful forum run in the beginning and quickly evolved into a snake pit of horrible attitudes and many arguments amongst it's forum users. It became habitual to run off new sellers and insult them, probably due to a failing site filled with frustrated vendors who really didnt want any more competition. When Ubid bought the site, the very first administrative move was to close the forums permanently. Plans for bidville probably included closing the site, Ubid stated they werent equipped to manage Bidville. The forum closure, IN MY OPINION, was a strategic move to retain as many buyers and sellers as possible and transition them over to the Ubid.com site. During the CEO change from Meggers to Donny at eBay, Bidville did not grow even though other similiar sites continued to have increases during this time.

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  8. Hi Lisa,

    Intersting comment - thank you.

    Would you happen to know how Etsy keeps their forums in check and the gang like activity to a minimum?

    That could be very helpful information for other sites with the same issues.

    Thank you!

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  9. Etsy is a handmade site, but also allows vintage of 20+ years and craft/art supplies. So the attraction seems to have the common thread of like minded groups of people.

    Etsy has it's issues, like during the election the "Sarah Palin is the spawn of Satan" thread will forever be considered a post of infamy, regardless of who you voted for.

    Most full time Etsians are on a team, sometimes 2 or 3 teams. Being on a team creates community & even though you are an individual~you still belong to a group of like minded people.

    Most teams have conduct requirements along with qualifying requirements.

    If you are a constant nuisance in the forums, you will most likely get booted from your team.
    If our entire team is a nuisance, ummmm maybe you should go somewhere else...

    Teams are great. They promote you, unite you, represent you, encourage you, they even interact with other teams.

    you do not want the team boot. You need the team. My 3rd highest GA keyword used to find my etsy items is my team name tag.

    Etsy also has a lot of unwritten rules for etsyquette. If you behave inappropriately, you will hear about it.

    Gang behavior generally is a non issue.

    1. Etsians are busy and dont sit on the site for hours in groups looking for someone to pick on.

    2. Etsians are not allowed to have 2nd posting IDs and must use their main selling ID in the forums.

    3. Gang mentality on Etsy is considered poor Etsyquette.

    There is always an exception, etsy forum life isnt perfect (especially if your Sarah Palin, or Satan's Spawn)

    IF you do get ganged up on

    it happens

    its NOT because a group of girls got together and plotted a plan (or is it planned a plot?) to attack you for the next hour.

    It's usually due to some post you made such as "Why Nazi's should be worshiped", and of course everyone rags on you equally and you deserve it.

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